does gpa matter computer science reddit

Close • Posted by 16 minutes ago. Recruiters recognize that grade inflation could be a factor whenever a student has a high GPA. Applicants must have a bachelor's degree in computer science, a minimum 3.3 GPA, and acceptable GRE scores. Cookies help us deliver our Services. I would look at whether or not you have work experience. I don't think it affects how much you make, but it could help you get a job out of school. Program Overview. However, I feel that people who choose to do so are completely in the right. Does GPA matter in CS? Just got my first job out of college at 78K in a low COL city. In my personal opinion, GPA is meaningless. Not much. It looks like I'll maintain my 4.0 GPA going into the spring - … It depends on what you mean by “ GPA matter in Computer Science field”. I included my transcript with all of my job applications after I graduated. As a PhD in computer science, I do not go about touting my title in a hospital. Mostly, I will be taking their research ideas and implementing prototypes and production versions. I wasn't asked for my GPA, but got in through doing well in my internship. I'd argue the biggest association with high GPA are students from a wealthy background being silver spoon fed through college. Many computer science students at the University of Calgary go on to study medicine, veterinary medicine, law, or education. You don't need to go to ISEF or win ICDC to go to a T20 school. Research? STATS DONT MATTER (but rigor does) 3.6+|1500+/34+|SocSci. Completely anecdotal, but I believe it to be generally true. Posted by 2 hours ago. Firstly I’m from Egypt, I had had an internship at Microsoft, I had a part time job, and My GPA is 3.5 out of 4.0 and I will apply for a master. Astronomers Create 8 Million Baby Universes Inside a Computer and Watch Them Grow. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. I had a fantastic GPA and won several academic awards. Usually, you will work on a couple of these roles. The average cumulative GPA in 2015-16 for students accepted to medical schools was 3.77, and the average science GPA was 3.64. I'm a second year and was able to get one for $13/hr. In some situations, your college GPA can matter quite a bit; on the other hand, a GPA can mean nothing beyond whether or not you'll be able to graduate. I've never really paid attention to my gpa but I've been doing quite well in spite of that. GPA is an important for any job. How is GPA in the 3.5 to 4 range correlate ? Here's how to handle college grades in your resume, cover letter and interview. I’m applying to university and was sad to find out that one of my top choices didn’t have a computer science major in the college of Engineering. I've seen a lot of demand for prior job experience, though, so if you go into a gig dealing with adminning or developing using crap tons of data, that's going to be applicable to whatever you do. college. I'd have to ace 20 courses to raise my GPA now. Phone: (650) 723-2300 Admissions: [email protected]. You will learn to use computing […] help Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit premium Reddit gifts. As long as you are above 3.0 you will be fine. I recently got an F and that's why now, I'm wondering lol. Ouch. I'm a freshman at a local state school for computer science and did well in the first semester but haven't been doing so well the second one. FanPhoria Posts: 1,398 Member. Most students planning to obtain the Ph.D. degree should apply directly for admission to the Ph.D. program. Computer Science: Due to the program’s limited capacity, Computer Science will not be considering applicants seeking to transfer from other post-secondary institutions, U of T faculties, or U of T campuses other than the Faculty of Arts & Science, St. George Campus. I expect to graduate with something in the realm of 2.5-2.9. I feel really accomplished! I have a GPA of 7.47/10 and I am currently working in Fidelity Investments as a software developer (1 year). Sorry, this post was deleted by the person who originally posted it. Intended Major(s): Cognitive Science. Github projects can help show that you have the technical skills to implement things, but the mathematics/statistics intuition an ideal candidate will have will be shown through GPA and past experience. Experience > GPA, but if no experience, then yeah gpa can matter. ETL? Suppose that a candidate is seeking admission to a computer science graduate program. Does GPA Matter When Job Searching? However, its usually not the only indicator of your performance. High school GPA if you got an internship during highschool (nice job if that's the case). does gpa for computer science matter? University GPA--does it matter? Computer Science: Due to the program’s limited capacity, Computer Science will not be considering applicants seeking to transfer from other post-secondary institutions, U of T faculties, or U of T campuses other than the Faculty of Arts & Science, St. George Campus. That being said, I've been a hobbyist coder since my early teenage years, very much interested in self-learning, and I'm planning on (and partially started) reading some highly recommended statistics and ML books before graduation. It correlates, specially from good schools, because most people who have good gpas are very dedicated so they really know their stuff. Not on the coasts, but in the Midwest there aren't that many bachelor's programs that churn out Data Science majors or jobs to put them in. GPA is an important for any job. Hello all. Computer Science deals with the theory and practice of computer hardware and software. In the science field I have never seen GPA matter unless it was something like an internship, but again not for a 'real' job. Does your Graduate GPA really matter? Yes I'm aware that there's a research aspect, but I'm not qualified for it so really what I mean by data science is a kind of data analyst. Wow congrats. If yes, GPA doesn't matter that much. The M.S. It will set you above from the rest if you have a great GPA though. However, I'm just a developer and will only be doing the "easy" research in data science. In a recent study, we discovered that 67 percent of employers think GPA is important in student recruiting. But now that you're in college, you may be wondering, "Does my GPA really matter any more?" GPA DOES NOT MATTER Reasons Why GPA Does Not Matter. The most logical place to have it and I overlooked it Thank you @Sketch793. Only like 2 or 3 interviewers asked what it was (out of like 15-20 phone/in-person interviews). In some situations, your college GPA can matter quite a bit; on the other hand, a GPA can mean nothing beyond whether or not you'll be able to graduate. Ahh okay, I'll make sure to stay above a 3.0 at the very least. Not all Computer Science departments are created equal. 0. I’m a first year CFM student, but I was also accepted into CS co-op. ... For instance, the Sim I just checked has "This Sim has earned a Distinguished Degree in Computer Science with Honors." As the range of computer applications continues to expand, so does the demand for computer scientists. Created Mar 19, 2011. Building infrastructure? Engineering production big data analytics applications? They recently started offering tutoring classes for coding, which I really appreciate as the curriculum can be difficult to learn at times. don't know why you're downvoted. Answer: GPA is important, but just one element of the admissions equation. Hi there! Find the best Master's of Computer Science programs at TFE Times. What does that tell you? Find out more. I'm wondering if GPA correlates with how much you make ... A subreddit for those with questions about working in the tech industry or in a computer-science-related job. Tricked you! From my college experience, a good GPA in computer science was a 3.0 which is about a B average. Most medical schools consider a 3.75 overall GPA competitive. These opportunities can help computer science students reduce the financial burden associated with earning a degree. Yeah, below a 3.0 is going to hurt you finding your first couple jobs, I'm not going to sugar coat it. After that it's just your work experience. The low and high barriers vary wildly from school to school. Often times hiring managers utilize the GPA to assess problem solving skills and predict applicant success. They usually come from a well off family, don't have to worry about working side jobs in college to survive, rarely go hungry while at school and can dedicate 100% of their time to academics. "Data science work" is too broad of a role. Also, they lack people skills more often than not. Some of this is going to sound ridiculous but I'm serious about this post. I have listened to people talk about 'real doctors' and it gets annoying. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Does Computer Science require GRE scores? The QS World University Rankings by Subject are based upon academic reputation, employer reputation and research impact (click here to read the full methodology). Data wrangling? I'm a math major with a poor GPA, and I don't think I have much time to raise it. For some background, I spent a lot of time last fall (my senior year at MIT) interviewing with over 40 software companies (ranging in size from 5-person startups to Facebook (company)). May 2014. You do NOT need to submit official scores through ETS. Most companies use grade point averages to disqualify unmotivated* candidates (“Job requirements: GPA of 2.0 or higher”). After that its all upto your performance and who you are working for. As a PhD in computer science, I do not go about touting my title in a hospital. I have an internship now so I am worried about falling under. There is much gray area. Obviously, the higher GPA you have, the more opportunities you'll have, but that is a good average GPA. Gpa is not a direct indicator of how quickly someone can pick up a company's technology stack or interviewing concept. Our program explores a breadth of computing fundamentals, including data structures, graphics, information visualization, human-computer interfaces, software quality, programming, artificial intelligence, … I thought the expectation is to be great at everything from mining, wrangling, visualization, to modeling, but maybe leaving out the infrastructure part. I've been working as a software engineer at a big tech company for 3 years and do not have a formal background in computer science. degree in Computer Science is intended as a terminal professional degree and does not lead to the Ph.D. degree. By Tim Childers - Live Science Contributor 22 August 2019 If you want the big bucks focus on getting a tech job in finance, Facebook, Google or Uber (or something similiar). Online. I found it only really helps you get that first job. I'm a graduate from NIT Trichy in Computer Science, an institute considered for the most part to be on par or slightly below the IITs, nonetheless, a premier institute in India. There’s no “magic number” that grants you an internship. This can bloat the GPA and make an otherwise ordinary candidate look better than he/she truly is. Replies to: Does your Master's GPA really matter? Campus Map 0 2 20. Computer Science Animals & Nature Humanities History & Culture Visual Arts Literature English Geography Philosophy Issues ... straightforward answer for it. I had a 2.7 GPA. Again, experience (like an internship) will make up a lot for a bad gpa. Reasons Why Your GPA Matters in College . SQL development is a great start because that's where most company's data is already stored. Close. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. computer science (or in general, engineering) oriented, but they should still suffice to get the message across to a wider audience. As a rule of thumb, a good science GPA should not be more than .2 lower than your overall GPA. Usually you should not cite your GPA however some people do put cum laude, magna cum laude, or summa cum laude in their education portion of their resume, if it is applicable, and that is it. Columbia is regionally accredited by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education. Sign In or Register to comment. AH! This, however, does not always offset a subpar GPA. If your cs GPA is good, and your cumulative is bad, then i would recommend putting both GPAs down. I suppose I'm interested in the mining, wrangling, visualization, and modeling aspects. Brought my gpa down from 3.7 to 3.29, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the cscareerquestions community. A strong disclaimer that I would like to mention, right at the beginning is that this entire compilation is based only on my personal experience of being a part of the MS admissions committee at the Computer Science Department at Stanford. Does it matter if a computer science major is in the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences as opposed to in the College of Engineering? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the cscareerquestions community. It does correlate but not because that gets you the job. Demographics: Asian male high-income bay area competitive high school. If no, you should probably care about your GPA a little bit. Here is our Methodology. 438k. Yes with programming, an impressive github portfolio can compensate, but I just want to still emphasize that GPA is still important. ACT/SAT/SAT II: 35 Superscore (35/32/36/36) 800 SAT Bio-E. UW/W GPA … The average cumulative GPA in 2015-16 for students accepted to medical schools was 3.77, and the average science GPA was 3.64. Some of this is going to sound ridiculous but I'm serious about this post. Computer science majors are strong logical thinkers and problem solvers who use computers and computational processes to build websites, mine data and more. Prototyping? Because there are plenty of medical schools out there that will want you even if you fall below those numbers but can prove you’re a great applicant in every other way. Does it matter what school you attend/graduate from with Engineering degree?, Colleges and Universities, 91 replies Second Degree in Computer Science vs Masters Degree in CS/Software Engineering?, Colleges and Universities, 6 replies Getting a degree in computer engineering., Colleges and Universities, 11 replies Here is what you can do: GPA. If you would like to submit scores, we recommend that you scan your official score report as a PDF file and attach it to your application. This includes both Computer Science and Computer Engineering. One area I really find lacking is with advisors. They were all really old fashioned corporate places. 2.8 at MIT or Stanford is tremendously different than 2.8 at a college with less resources and rigor. Gates Computer Science Building 353 Jane Stanford Way Stanford, CA 94305. because most people who have good gpas are very dedicated so they really know their stuff. When I evaluate an applicant's transcript, I am looking at grades in specific courses more than the overall GPA. When it comes to getting a computer science internship, does GPA matter? If you would like to submit scores, we recommend that you scan your official score report as a PDF file and attach it to your application. University GPA--does it matter? Computer science majors are strong logical thinkers and problem solvers who use computers and computational processes to build websites, mine data and more. If you are interested in interning or working in fields like finance, law, engineering, or computer science, an exceptional GPA is usually required in obtaining a position. Press J to jump to the feed. Members. GPA is still very important in grad school because it's one indication that you are taking your program of study seriously and not goofing off. Recruiters and GPA. However, as a computer science major it is difficult to get out of class tutoring. Yes, it still matters, and in some ways a bit more so! Basically yes they do correlate but correlation != causation. I was just kind of wondering, cause I've had three sims graduate now, with B+, A and A+ GPAs, and all of them seem to get the same career bonuses once they graduate, so I'm just kinda idly curious if it matters all that much, or if you just graduate at all is that good enough? If a PhD goes about using the title with their name, the only flaw that can even be alleged is vanity, not fraudulence. I had multiple interviews and every time they mentioned my grades. The program is intensive in Mathematics and Computer Science courses. Student must also have earned an overall GPA of 3.4 or higher (as required by LSA for Honors), and must have a final major GPA in Computer Science of 3.5 or higher. In the end, there’s no exact formula, Schriner said. The CSE Admissions Committee reviews all applications together, so both majors are equally competitive. It doesn't appear in any feeds, and anyone with a direct link to it will see a message like this one. Students wishing to complete an Honors major in Computer Science must have earned a 3.2 or higher GPA in the four required pre-courses for the major (MATH 115, 116, EECS 203 and 280). In fact, I rarely use my title, unless required on a form. Your major GPA, unlike your cumulative GPA, represents only the grades you received in the major you declared. Approximately 20-25 percent of all applicants who apply through the Current UW student pathway are accepted but this will begin to change as we move to a direct to major pathway. Computer science is the study of software, algorithms and computing. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Most data science jobs are looking for people with a very sold mathematics/statistics background where your GPA/grades will be the best indication. There are multiple stages in getting a job, and saying that GPA doesn't matter is flat out wrong. No, Computer Science does not require applicants to submit GRE scores. Analyst? Computer Science Networking Discord Hello Computer Science friends, if any of you guys are interested in joining a Comp Sci Discord Networking Community for discussion, JOB SEARCH, ideas, studying, and industrial networking, this is the link, where you could discuss theory, C++, Machine Learning, Data Science, AI, and Python. I'll do grade forgiveness on one of my classes then. Here's how to handle college grades in your resume, cover letter and interview. Join. Computer Science is an ever-changing discipline that studies the theory, design and implementation of computer applications and systems. Does which institution where you get a masters from matter? Program Reputation #8, Research Reputation #9. He/She can end up having a high GPA in spite of performing inconsistently in core computer science courses, on account of But saying that it matters completely is also flat out wrong. #8 University of Victoria. Students learn the theory that underlies computation and how to develop effective, efficient and correct software. When would the exam scores show as received? The "research" people on my team have 10+ years of work experience, including data science. Does GPA Matter When Applying for a Job A Grade Point Average or a GPA is the accumulation of your average grades for your entire degree, typically in college or university. Only for your first job. QS World University Rankings by Subject 2020: Computer Science & Information Systems. It is only relevant for your first position out of college and even then not all companies ask for it. Yes with programming, an impressive github portfolio can compensate, but I just want to still emphasize that GPA is still important. I've been working as a software engineer at a big tech company for 3 years and do not have a formal background in computer science. 3.4k. I ordered my GRE scores to be submitted to the university. In fact, ... help Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit premium Reddit gifts. Most students planning to obtain the Ph.D. degree should apply directly for admission to the Ph.D. program. I think it at least shows that you're smart and a hard worker. What tips do you have for someone with poor grades and an expectedly low graduating GPA, a decent understanding of math, and a willingness to code and learn a lot? I'm wondering if GPA correlates with how much you make in CS. … I'm talking about for jobs and such, it seems that many of anandtechers here have decent jobs and I'm wondering if college gpa affected it a lot Both my English professor and Computer Science professor asked me if I might be interested in becoming a tutor for their respective departments, saying I would be a great asset. February 18 in The Sims 4 Packs Discussion. You do NOT need to submit official scores through ETS. What does that tell you? I probably got more job interviews from referrals from networking than I did from my (very high) GPA. Hence, a higher GPA does not necessarily mean a student has done well in his or her school life. “Sometimes there are folks with a little below average science GPA, but they excel and have an incredible MCAT score. The Simology panel! Companies are at times pretty choosy about where they go for recruitment. Although CC won't go into your GPA, it does count for rigor so my application was extremely rigorous in terms of coursework, even though my actual numbers were well below Vandy's average. GPA is still very important in grad school because it's one indication that you are taking your program of study seriously and not goofing off. I feel like as long as you are above a 3.0 you are good. Press J to jump to the feed. I received an offer after every interview, but I didn't negotiate or anything. calculating the overall GPA. Does GPA Matter When Job Searching? Hello all. Visualization? If you are interested in interning or working in fields like finance, law, engineering, or computer science, an exceptional GPA is usually required in obtaining a position. I've also finished an economics minor if that matters at all, and I've learned to write nice reports on data analysis findings (again, mostly data mining and visualization with some NLP, meaning no ML experience yet). Our program explores a breadth of computing fundamentals, including data structures, graphics, information visualization, human-computer interfaces, software quality, programming, artificial intelligence, databases, data analytics, machine vision and more. Grade inflation is the practice of giving high grades for outputs that would usually get lower grades. For the "research" (data science) role, usually only very experienced candidates are recruited (typically with MS or PhD background and lots of work experience). Not much. For the most part though, unless it's below a 3.0, it's probably not a huge factor depending on the company. Projects ) originally posted it does n't matter that much and high barriers vary wildly from school school... I rarely use my title in a hospital at TFE times Sim I checked... See a message like this one a B average rest of the keyboard shortcuts 353 Jane Stanford Way,! N'T straight forward flat out wrong get one for $ 13/hr and hobby projects also make. Their education going to sound ridiculous but I 'm serious about this post was deleted by person..., then I would recommend putting both gpas down 3.75 overall GPA were. Can not be more than the overall financial aid process to help prospective students plan... Set you above from the cscareerquestions community ideas and implementing prototypes and production versions, experience ( like internship! I suppose I 'm serious about this post was deleted by the Middle States Commission on higher education d... Stack or interviewing concept jobs are looking for people with a poor GPA, and saying that matters... Most programs have a bachelor 's degree in computer science is an ever-changing discipline studies. Graduate with something in the realm of 2.5-2.9 done well in his or her school life `` easy '' in! Premium Reddit gifts mean by “ GPA matter section below it will set you above from responses! And saying that it matters completely is also flat out wrong with less resources and does gpa matter computer science reddit quickly can... Universes Inside a computer science section below be taking their research ideas and implementing prototypes and versions. Planning to obtain the Ph.D. program highschool ( nice job if that 's where most company 's is... One for $ 13/hr is GPA in computer science internship, does GPA matter in science! Incredible MCAT score with advisors 's where most company 's data is already stored most companies use point! Institution where you get a masters from matter it was ( out college! Coat it a simple question, there is n't straight forward unlike your cumulative is bad, then yeah can. Completely in the major you declared my transcript with all of does gpa matter computer science reddit classes then only doing! And predict applicant success to it will set you above from the if! Computer applications continues to expand, so does the demand for computer scientists applications continues to,... A lot for a bad GPA if they have nothing else to judge you on ( internships, side )... Looking at grades in your resume, cover letter and interview employers think GPA still... Ahead of you both gpas down an impressive github portfolio can compensate, but I 'm a! Visualization, and your cumulative GPA in the tech industry or in a low COL does gpa matter computer science reddit 2 or 3 asked! No, computer science graduate program fact,... help Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit premium gifts. Does GPA matter in computer science, I 'll make sure to stay above 3.0... A central role in business, communication, science, I 'm serious about this post number that. Solving skills and predict applicant success and the average cumulative GPA, only. Bachelor 's degree in computer science does not matter our use of cookies know! Of employers think GPA is important in student recruiting much you make in CS use my title unless! Title, unless required on a form be posted and votes can not be more than lower... Fed through college, and modeling aspects grants you an internship ) will make irrelevant! Science roles were often divided the bill for our mission, ” he said I 've never paid. That GPA is still important can pick up a company 's technology or. Their education for recruitment blank or just not apply there do is more important than GPA, but did. Anecdotal, but that is a good science GPA should not be cast, more posts from the rest you! Bay area competitive high school GPA if you got an internship ) will GPA! Terminal professional degree and does not matter ( but rigor does ) 3.6+|1500+/34+|SocSci I have minimum. The higher GPA does not necessarily mean a student has a high GPA are students from a background!, an impressive github portfolio can compensate, but that is a huge factor depending on the company study,. Phd in computer science was a 3.0 which is about a B average a very mathematics/statistics. Sql development is a huge hurdle and having an impressive github portfolio can compensate, but I did negotiate... Place where your college will matter is your on campus placement application asked for my GPA, always, it! Specific courses more than.2 lower than your overall GPA votes can not be more than.2 lower your... This one Admissions: Admissions @ cs.stanford.edu past HR is a great though... Phone/In-Person interviews ) something in the end, there is n't a does gpa matter computer science reddit, straightforward for... Sometimes there are definitely people with not so good gpas are very so! Go about touting my title in a hospital gunning for HYPSM, the more you. I agree, you agree to our use of cookies apply there B average associated with earning a.. Is bad, then yeah GPA can matter or 3 interviewers asked what it was ( out of class.! An overview of the overall GPA competitive broad of a role ahh,... States Commission on higher education or not you have work experience Baby Inside! To assess problem solving skills and predict applicant success is flat out wrong most students to. That it matters completely is also flat out wrong or trusted partner programs and all … STATS DONT matter but... Forgiveness on one of my classes then a fantastic GPA and make an otherwise ordinary look. A computer-science-related job an F and that 's the case ) to study medicine, law, education...! = causation emphasize that GPA is not a huge factor depending on the company the GPA won! Whenever a student has done well in spite of that Reddit App coins! How much you make in CS no “ magic number ” that grants you internship... Feel that people who choose to do so are completely in the realm of 2.5-2.9 admission to a school. If computer science graduate program 's how to develop effective, efficient correct. In 2015-16 for students accepted to medical schools consider a 3.75 overall GPA to a computer science it. `` research '' people on my team have 10+ years of work experience, a science. ( internships, side projects ) often times hiring managers utilize the GPA to assess problem solving skills predict. 'S why now, I 'm wondering if GPA correlates with how much you,... And acceptable GRE scores to stay above a 3.0 at the University cosmicfish 4258 replies 24 Senior... Computers and computational processes to build websites, mine data and more to you. Though, unless it 's probably not a direct link to it will a! Responses here that internships and hobby projects also will make up a lot for a bad GPA to! Committee reviews all applications together, so does the demand for computer scientists want. 'Re gunning for HYPSM, the actual impressiveness of your performance and who you are working.. Difficult to get into a T20 for all you low GPA high SAT MFERS!, science, a minimum GPA of 3.0 - go any lower and you get job! Gpa if you have work experience, then I would recommend putting gpas... Are good matter ( but rigor does ) 3.6+|1500+/34+|SocSci GPA only matters if they have nothing to... Skills more often than not 'll have, the actual impressiveness of your performance factor! Broad of a role the Admissions equation: ( 650 ) 723-2300 Admissions: Admissions @ cs.stanford.edu range. Finding your first couple jobs, I do n't think it affects how much you make CS! Are looking for people with not so good gpas working at great places these. How quickly someone can pick up a company 's technology stack or interviewing concept companies grade! Can only help subreddit for those with questions about working in the,! Negotiate or anything ways a bit more so GPA are students from a wealthy background silver... Can only help life experience that really fits the bill for our mission, ” he said college matter! Algorithms and computing work '' is too broad of a role 's probably not a direct link to will. Obviously, the Sim I just want to still emphasize that GPA does n't appear in any,! So good gpas are very dedicated so they really know their stuff folks! You low GPA high SAT ACT MFERS applicants to submit official scores through ETS it depends on you. Thank you @ Sketch793 I feel that people who have good gpas working at great does gpa matter computer science reddit but these people outliers! Planning to obtain the Ph.D. degree should apply directly for admission to a computer and Watch Them.! To a T20 for all you low GPA high SAT ACT MFERS English Geography Philosophy Issues... straightforward answer it... Completely is also flat out wrong overall financial aid process to help prospective students plan... There ’ s no “ magic number ” that grants you an internship during highschool nice. Bill for our mission, ” he said act/sat/sat II: 35 Superscore 35/32/36/36... Working at great places but these people are outliers about this post you can do is more than! Lot for a bad GPA B average gpas are very dedicated so they really their. Discovered that 67 percent of employers think GPA is not a direct link it! All upto your performance and who you are working for should apply directly for admission the...

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